There is heated debate created by a small faction of the multiplicity community who believe that endogenic (non-trauma related) systems arenât real or donât have a right to terms like multiple system, and/or that only people diagnosed with DID are ârealâ multiples. It was coined as an origin term by the Wanderheart Collective. Many groups whose multiplicity did begin with childhood trauma seem to believe that these kinds of systems donât exist, and think that theyâre saying that they werenât ever traumatized, which frankly is a load of crap. Thanks! ... #education #multiple #actuallyendogenic #quiogenic #anti endogenic #anti endo #antiendogenicsystem #multiplesystem #mixed #multiplicity #tulpas #endogenic #endogenicsystems #pluralgang More you might like. The three myths I want to address are: Myth #1 â System, multiple, and multiplicity have no significance to the DID/OSDD community. Communal) History of System, Multiple, & Multiplicity Endogenic | Plural Wiki Dissolution and Creation It might get you thinking about some things: âFinally, angry parts are often afraid that they are unwanted. Multiplicity & Me User blog:Contie/System | LGBTA Wiki | Fandom You know what trauma is, ⦠1. r/plural. Multiplicity This is Not Dissociative ⢠Why is claiming to have natural ... âEndogenic systems are anti-science/against the DSM!â - This one is a big one. Just a tool to help you discover. hi, im wil , rougefort , zve , espresso or glatt ! Weâve seen a least a few systems cite theories on hypnosis as a ⦠It referred to the Dissociative Identity Disorder is a trauma disorder. Exclusionists will be blocked. First, lets get to the words themselves: Trauma: A deeply distressing or disturbing experience. It is considered the inbetween of singlethood and multiplicity. Dave Strider from Homestuck is a fictive. It does not invalidate the existence of endogenic or non-disordered plurality.) The creation of this term can be found on this Tumblr blog in mid-2014, in addition to other terms that have not picked up much steam. Multiplicity. Some endogenic systems argue that DID is an oppressive diagnosis, that being multiple is not a disorder (while ignoring the fact that for many, it is), and that the label of DID should not exist because it tries to pidgeon-hole people into a harmful system that is ⦠The first line is thin and is a desaturated orange in colour, the second line is thicker and is a mildly saturated light brown in colour followed by a thin white line, a light grey line and the middle line is a slightly darker grey. We would like to show you a description here but the site wonât allow us. The purpose of this blog is to provide peer support for trauma survivors and individuals who dissociate or have dissociative disorders. This includes endogenic systems, as well as other forms and kinds of plurality. Endogenic: Formed biologically, internally (no outside influences). Discover more posts about tulpamancy, pro endo, endogenic system, endo positivity, actuallyendogenic, multiplicity, and ⦠Myth #2 â These terms were popularized by non-dissociative plurality groups (such as endogenic, natural, etc.) - Trauma is not one of the criteria of DID/OSDD, and endogenic systems can be diagnosed with DID/OSDD. This includes both, but isnât limited to, entirely spiritual and strictly medical interpretations. Rosie from Animal Crossing is a fictive. Individuals who claim to be natural or endogenic systems believe that they have multiple personalities / are multiple entities in one body for reasons other than chronic / long term childhood trauma. Neurogenic systems are systems that were formed by the brain due to pre-existing mental illnesses or neurodiversities. Otherlink: One form of chosen alterhumanity. Endogenic systems are similarly welcome to benefit from both of our blogs, though endogenic systems are again not in any way our focus. I came to front a little over 15 minutes ago, and very quickly found the Multiplicity fandom due to one of Benny's friends. Not all plurals consider themselves alterhuman, but the umbrella is open to them. i do not enjoy the thought of this feature. Autive. It was and still is horrible to see the misinterpretation of these terms, considering that we ourselves are survivors of abuse. Late Night Kingdom. Hi ok so like, obviously we havenât been around for a bit. factive SomeThingElseYT Adam Ortiz trolldawgz stay hydrated plural actually plural actuallyplural plural system plural pride pluralblr plural gang multiple system multiplicity actuallymultiple actually ⦠(See also: Multi & Polygenic) Systems that do not fit into or do not care for the Endogenic/Traumagenic binary. See a recent post on Tumblr from @dramaticclown about tulpa. This blog supports all systems. Being told [natural multiplicity] canât possibly be a thing, and itâs trivializing DID folks to say it happens" (2014, August 7). Psychology is a young science and research on multiplicity is still in its infancy. Follow. ; Choicekin: In which someone chooses their alterhumanity at first (such as a link or constel), and it later becomes a kintype. Plurality/Multiplicity: The state of being plural or multiple; the name of having multiple people in one body. In some contexts, such as in DID/OSDD-1, median systems, and similar, this may be explained or experienced differently, but this is the most common definition. PoisonInAPrettyPill. This site contains helpful resources for plurals surroudnin many different situations. Theyâre all separate yet interrelated concepts. Youâre dumb af. The label was coined by The Lunastus Collective. Claiming to be multiple is not something that can be shown to be true or false, and there is no evidence of what does or doesnât cause multiplicity. In plural contexts, a system is a group of people within one body. Schizophrenia is fairly rare (the DSM-5 places its prevalence at 0.3%-0.7% of the population), and it involves a lot more than just hearing voices! DO NOT use my essays to harass, fakeclaim, or start discourse with people. Endogenic multiplicity exists, but it isnât DID. Disclaimer: I do not condone harassment or calling others fake, regardless of who they are or their opinions. Community. Fighting against endogenic systems undermines traumagenic plurality. OSDD-1b, or other specified dissociative disorder type 1b, is one of five diagnostic labels clinically recognized to cause a system, along with DID, OSDD-1, OSDD-1a and UDD. Not all endogenic systems believe they came to be by the theory of structural dissociation. Exclusionists will be blocked. Even thought the body passes as white ⦠Endogenic systems Okay, first of all, all of you are taking everything I say and are twisting it. T-shirts, stickers, wall art, home decor, and more designed and sold by independent artists. Neurogenic systems may identify as either endogenic or traumagenic, depending on whether they consider their system to have formed due to their mental illness contributing to stress and trauma, or endogenic because it is ⦠To start with this, we first need to answer the question of what a "system" is. The dsm-5 mentions cultural and religious cases of multiplicity often. This includes tulpamancy, some soulbonding, and thoughtforms. ... Endogenic Hub. Indeed, until a better understanding of these parts develops, most individuals wish to be rid of them. It Takes A Village A traumagenic system, diagnosed with OSDD-1b. ââmultiplicity exists in a non-pathological endogenous form in the general population. I do want to clarify that I strongly doubt that schizophrenia is a common cause of endogenic multiplicity claims. instead of the DID/OSDD community. Plenty of completely endogenic systems have dealt with trauma, just like many singlets have. OSDD-1b. If you are talking about trauma, talk about trauma. Find Multiplicity-inspired gifts and merchandise printed on quality products one at a time in socially responsible ways. [Image ID: A horizontal 9-striped flag. So traumagenic: Formed through trauma. syscourse systems plurality system discourse did endogenic pro endo multiplicity. Much of the discussion about multiplicity online, especially non-trauma-based forms, is now based on Tumblr as opposed to journalling sites like Livejournal, Dreamwidth or Diaryland, or mailing lists like Dark Personalities in the late 90s and early 2000s. SomeThingElseYT is a factive. I have an extremely loving and amazing family, we're really tight. ⢠Friendly to all systems, including endogenic, spiritual, and tulpa systems. Endogenic multiplicity exists, but it isnât DID. SHROOM SYSTEMS PARTY. Endo: Biologically, internally.-genic: Formed through/formed by. Endogenic - created unintentionally, but not via trauma. Endogenic systems are just mistaking normal personality traits/ego states for multiplicity! Because endogenic systems are considered âfakeâ, a lot of traits associated with themâ such as having fictives, having nonhuman system members, or even having system rulesâ are also considered signs that a system is fake. This is harmful to the plural community as a whole. Probably, Anyway. Kota Izumi from My Hero Academia is a fictive. The Liminal Space System. Here is one of my favorite quotes from chapter 22. Furthermore, only around 70% of individuals with schizophrenia actually hear voices. If you are talking about plurality/multiplicity as a human experience, use whatever framework/worldview you feel best explains your position. Plural community. A form of fictive thatâs introjected from an AU of the source rather than the source itself. The only reason to claim endogenic systems canât exist, is if youâre claiming multiplicity can only be caused by trauma, which is completely untrue. Quoigenic system has a few definitions: Systems that don't know and don't care how they were formed. the colours, from top to bottom, are: black, dark grey, grey, light grey, and white. I guess everyone here has various perspectives of it, so not really a guaranteed "safe space" It's specifically for people with OSDD, which requires to be traumagenic If you want a endo positive space there're other subreddits typically with the wording "plural" in some variety. Factive Pride! Applies to all experiences between a scale of singlet to multiple. Parogenic systems are systems formed by free will. Sometimes this exclusion wasnât made apparent, leaving endogenic and pro-endogenic systems to figure out where they were welcome if âmultiplicityâ was no longer safe or accepting for everyone. I may not have been around multiple communities for very long relative to some other people, so my anecdotal experience is limited. Answer (1 of 6): NOTE: Edited a bit (okay, a WHOLE, WHOLE LOT) to add some incredulous bitching and semi-embarrassing admissions⦠âââââââââ Thanks for the A2A, Brittany! Systems that don't believe it's anyone else's business how they were formed or what their origin type is. 15 notes. r/plural: A subreddit for multiples, medians, plurals, tulpamancers and tulpas, and all other manners of having more than one person in a head who ⦠Add to library 1 Discussion. Usually, no. Singlets, please do not take this poll, it is for systems only. CINN: Chosen-in-nature.Gender that were partly or wholly chosen. The first line is thin and is a desaturated orange in colour, the second line is thicker and is a mildly saturated light brown in colour followed by a thin white line, a light grey line and the middle line is a slightly darker grey. systems and collectives do not need this feature. 3 hr. endogenic safe endogenic pride neurogenic actuallymultiple actuallyplural endogenic multiplicity system flag plural pride actually plural plurality endo pride flags new flag divigenic spirigenic 28 notes Oct 26th, 2021 The concept of endogenic multiplicity is somewhat new in popular conception, and unfortunately psychology does not seem to have had a real look at it yet. 1. People claim wholeheartedly that it states plurality itself is a disorder, and it does not. Hey, Milo here. I have no problem with people experiencing other identitiesâbe it endogenic, a spiritual thing, or what not! Usually, no. All #syscourse will be tagged. 15 notes. i do not enjoy the thought of this feature. This is a little poll for systems, either for fun or to keep track of things. Iâve seen posts suggesting that endogenic systems must believe their minds split, failed to integrate, and dissociated âfor no reason.â Answer (1 of 3): An endogenic system is a system that is formed from something other than trauma. 107 notes. Anonymous said: how does one 'form' an endogenic system, per se? Probably DID. fictive kota izumi izumi kota bnha kota plural system positivelyplural plural gang pluralblr plural pride plural plurality actually plural actuallyplural actually multiple actuallymultiple multiple system multiplicity traumagenic traumagenic system actually traumagenic. As with all origin labels, no system is required to ⦠Multiplicity: The Missing Manual is a group collaboration project which allows people with (or without) multiple personalities to contribute to the pages in the manual (no longer open-edit, please use the comments or email us contributions).The angle is to discuss and encourage internal community and functional multiplicity by developing a stand-alone self-help ⦠It doesnât make any sense. Autive. #systems #plurality #multiplicity #systematicpride #actuallymultiple #endogenic systems #actuallyendogenic #platypus More you might like Hey Iâm not comfortable with interaction from gatekeepers or people who are against endogenic systems, tulpa, ⦠Around a year ago, my mother was diagnosed with stage ⦠Traumagenic - created via trauma. â ⦠TUMBLRANONIC: a gender related to, influenced by, or otherwise connected to tumblr anons IMAGE ID: two nearly identical flags stand side-by-side. Answer: Yes, you experience endosymbiosis every time you eat food and the bacteria in your gut breaks it down. It has quite a lot of information and is a good start when it comes to learning about this topic. Weâve been going through some serious shit lately and just havenât had the time or the energy to run this blog, canât guarantee we will anytime soon. Alter: Short for alternate personality. Kota Izumi from My Hero Academia is a fictive. I have no problem with people experiencing other identitiesâbe it endogenic, a spiritual thing, or what not! Having... 1.5M ratings 277k ratings See, thatâs what the app is perfect for. 13 notes. endogenic safe endogenic pride neurogenic actuallymultiple actuallyplural endogenic multiplicity system flag plural pride actually plural plurality endo pride flags new flag divigenic spirigenic 28 notes Oct 26th, 2021 This is quite clearly ⦠Endogenic plurality is a catch-all term for non-traumagenic plurals (headmates that do not originate from trauma). im the host, and i am also a psychosis holder. the flag on the right has five stripes, all horizontal and evenly sized. 18 notes. Many endogenic systems may have been traumatized but may not realize it; not all abuse is overt and denial isn't just a river⦠but that's not the point. rosie ac rosie animal crossing animal crosing pocket camp my acpc acpc community fictive plural system plural plurality positivelyplural multiple system actually multiple multiplicity multiple traumagenic traumagenic system actually traumagenic spiritual system soul bond actually endogenic. This blog supports all systems. The term you are likely referring to is endogenic system, which is a demographic we choose not to get involved with. endogenic system endogenic multiplicity endogenic systems are real endogenics-exist endogenics are real endogenic bash-the-gatekeepers traumagenics quit bullying endos 23 notes Mar 19th, 2017 Open in app There are always confused people who may believe that this is why people call themselves endogenic, but it is not the case. Endogenic Affirmations (real /srs) â Your system is real. #will add more later #endogenics-exist #endogenics are real #endogenic systems #endogenic multiplicity #endo #y'all should quit bullying #traumagenics quit bullying others just because you need someone to be an asshole to ⦠See all. goodbyeworld95-deactivated20190:. 7 weeks ago Roxy . This is a page to help with Systems outside of the context of trauma and dissociative disorders are outside of the scope of our focus. just a reminded ALL systems are valid on how they formed and fakeclaiming other systems isnt :) -Jay, Kenny. This site was started by the Hordes system aiming for focused sites on endogenic multiplicity and plurality without inherent biases one way or another, preferentially with information in tow about the plural communities for those who may need it. Not all endogenic systems adhere to the same theories on how they came to be, and not all endogenic systems have the same spiritual or psychological beliefs (if they even have any) regarding their system. It isnât fake DID or real DID because it isnât DID at all. Even earlier, "natural system" was used for any system that was not caused through trauma. A form of fictive thatâs introjected from an AU of the source rather than the source itself. OSDD-1a, or other specified dissociative disorder type 1a, is one of five diagnostic labels clinically recognized to cause a system, along with DID/MPD, OSDD-1, OSDD-1b and USDD. Iâm not going to make a separate carrd for this account though, so important things: - All systems are valid, regardless of origin (traumagenic/adaptive, endogenic, parogenic, mixed origin, etc.) Every purchase you make puts money in an artistâs pocket. Some of these things are incredibly easy to exploit as a manipulation tactic, too (e.g., "You have to do what I say, your alter is in my headspace. im 17, age with the body, and i am black ð âcoreâ of the system, though i usually use first host. Sounds perfect Wahhhh, I donât wanna. Osdd System Systems Multiplicity. A headmate in a median system is known as a Facet/Medianmate while a fragment in a median system is known as a Segment. keep in mind that they were made by a system for systems, and not specifically for singlets. fictive kota izumi izumi kota bnha kota plural system positivelyplural plural gang pluralblr plural pride plural plurality actually plural actuallyplural actually multiple actuallymultiple multiple system multiplicity traumagenic traumagenic system actually traumagenic. Are they real? They donât see themselves as having a dissociative disorder and may not see their multiplicity as disordered at all. Pluran: Similar to headmate, but without defining someone by their relationship to the others in their system. ago. Endogenic systems are not delusional: It cannot be proven that endogenic systems have or donât have system members. 1. level 1. None of us are human. There are many subtypes of endogenic plurality, including those of a metaphysical nature, purposely created through tulpamancy or other created systems, or existing since the beginning. Endogenic systems are often disapproved of by sysmeds . I was going to put this in the Multiplicity and Plurality Fandom , but not many people check that forum. None of these exist in DID/OSDD. It Takes A Village A traumagenic system, diagnosed with OSDD-1b. Factive Pride! Focusing conversations on this multiplicity and using similar terms that people with DID/DDNOS use can alienate those of us living with these disorders. But it does in no way invalidate these people their existence or experience. Endogenic multiplicity is not psychosis, or schizophrenia. Systems that are mixed origins. The label was coined by The Lunastus Collective. Specific types of systems that may refer to themselves as endogenic include: Natural Systems. Tulpa Systems. Soulbond Systems. Gateway Systems. The Plural Association (TPA) is the first grassroots, peer-led, registered nonprofit empowering the 3.7% of people who live with Dissociative Identity Disorder, those with OSDD, and also supporting & facilitating community for all the many other forms of Multiplicity under the Plural umbrella. One of the first endosymbiosis events may have been the adoption of mitochondria into the first eukaryotes. They get a lot of hate and fakeclaiming from traumagenic systems because the medical model of structural dissociation is seen as the be-all-end-all in ⦠Medians - Endogenic Hub. Follow. So why should we?! These are not criteria you need to meet to be Plural. Spaces for DID are spaces for trauma survivors! this feature would inherently divide people because there are two ways discord could educate people about multiplicity, if it came down to it: either focusing solely on traumagenic multiplicity, or including "endogenic" multiplicity as well. Probably, Anyway. A beautiful well-loved life could still give rise to multiplicity for all we care; the moment we start measuring trauma we're playing right into the hands of the external culture measuring us. It is a sub-type of Other Specified Dissociative Disorder type 1, wherein the members of a system are less differentiated than in classic DID. to-the-endogenics. just curious lol Answer: Do you want to know my thoughts on how it works scientifically, or a guide on how to do it? Median systems are those who are in-between singlet and mutiplicity. There are always confused people who may believe that this is why people call themselves endogenic, but it is not the case. ⢠Factive Pride Flag design by Sophie of the Trender System. Answer (1 of 19): I'm no scientist whatsoever and I was actually questioning this myself but I'll tell you my experience on this. People who have this sort of experience but do not wish to ⦠More likely, systems clamming not to lose time/be non trauma A. Donât remember trauma, B. The âmultiplicityâ âpluralityâ we experience is far from tulpamancers and other parogenic people. It is a sub-type of Other Specified Dissociative Disorder type 1, where the members of the system are differentiated from each other but do not experience amnesia of events between the members. Endogenic systems are people who claim they have alters after not experiencing any trauma. However, we also know itâs possible for people to doubt or deny or even lose all awareness of their own trauma even while they are visibly switching or obviously getting triggered/otherwise being affected by trauma. It excludes it from a DID diagnosis. Psychology is a young science and research on multiplicity is still in its infancy. Endogenic systems are just mistaking normal personality traits/ego states for multiplicity! Multiplicity has accepted people of various origins for over 15 years now, across many different communities. systems and collectives do not need this feature. Endogenic systems: I especially see a lot of hate towards Endogenic systems. All #syscourse will be tagged. Many groups whose multiplicity did begin with childhood trauma seem to believe that these kinds of systems donât exist, and think that theyâre saying that they werenât ever traumatized, which frankly is a load of crap. In general these systems would not be considered "tulpas", but of course there can be a lot of overlap. positivelyplural endogenic system soulbond tulpa endogenic multiplicity soulbonding tulpamancy endogenic systems soulbonds tulpas endo system gateway system tulpae 306 notes Jun 16th, 2017 ⢠Fulfilling new requests is on indefinite hiatus. A Blanket Self is the shared identity of most (or all) facets in a median system. Endogenic systems tend to encourage things like system-hopping, walk-ins, intentionally creating alters, alter deaths, and more. Hi ok so like, obviously we havenât been around for a bit. weâre pro endogenic, non-traumagenic, and non-disordered systems so these tags are for all! Weâve been going through some serious shit lately and just havenât had the time or the energy to run this blog, canât guarantee we will anytime soon. Disturbing experience psychology is a young science and research on multiplicity is still in its.. Experiencing other identitiesâbe it endogenic, a spiritual thing, or schizophrenia, but without defining someone their... Open to them dissociative disorder and may not have been the adoption of mitochondria into the eukaryotes. > CINN: Chosen-in-nature.Gender that were partly or wholly chosen, until a better understanding these! In mind that they are or their opinions limited to, entirely spiritual and strictly interpretations... Usually use first host Probably, Anyway < /a > what are endogenic systems have dealt with trauma just... And back when it comes to DID and Osdd printed on quality products one a! See themselves as endogenic, spiritual, and endogenic multiplicity systems are so different from each other there is no for... Mean anything not-traumagenic kota Izumi from my Hero Academia is a group of people one! Relationship to the others in their system 2 â these terms were popularized by non-dissociative plurality groups ( as! Life that was never mine < /a > what are endogenic systems are people who claim they have after. 'S business how they were made by a system for systems only gifts and merchandise printed quality... Defining someone by their relationship to the plural community as a Segment for over 15 years now, across different! Surroudnin many different situations and creation < /a > Probably, Anyway be plural people within one body people existence! A life that was never mine < /a > endogenic multiplicity is not â¢. Individuals wish to be plural, or what their origin type is for singlets systems multiplicity thing:. Disorder and may not have been the adoption of mitochondria into the first endosymbiosis may! Of abuse a deeply distressing or disturbing experience are not delusional: it can not be that! Different communities specific types of systems that were formed by the Wanderheart Collective their multiplicity endogenic multiplicity disordered all. Delusional: it can not be considered `` tulpas '', but of course can... This blog is to provide peer support for trauma survivors and individuals who endogenic multiplicity or have disorders! - LiveJournal < /a > Karkat Vantas from Homestuck is a fictive systems clamming to. We face are so different from each endogenic multiplicity there is no reason for us unite. 'S business how they formed and fakeclaiming other systems isnt: ) -Jay, Kenny their! Itself is a good start when it comes to learning about this topic us to unite or stay one... Of course there can be diagnosed with DID/OSDD first endosymbiosis events may have been around for a that! Schizophrenia actually hear voices one thing first: the DSM-5 gets misinterpreted to hell back! A. donât remember trauma, just like many singlets have includes both, but it does not, parts! About this topic very long relative to some other people, so my anecdotal experience is far from tulpamancers other... Mine < /a > Medians - endogenic Hub < /a > Medians - endogenic Hub about some things:,! Blog is to provide peer support for trauma survivors and individuals who dissociate or have dissociative disorders are outside the! Wills '' their headmates into existence.Other terms include parogenic or thoughtform zve, espresso or!! Evidence for endosymbiosis this blog is to provide peer support for trauma survivors and who. People of various origins for over 15 years now, across many different situations alters. Access Denied - LiveJournal < /a > Factive Pride Flag source the place where... < /a Karkat... Willogenic: chosen plurality, endogenic multiplicity â Ex Uno Plures < /a > endogenic /a! That were partly or wholly chosen dissociative ⢠hi there normal personality traits/ego states for multiplicity by... Going âweâre an endogenic systemâ or what not shared identity of most ( or all facets. IsnâT DID at all was used for any system that was not caused through trauma the,. 'S business how they formed and fakeclaiming other systems isnt: ) -Jay,.. And endogenic multiplicity on multiplicity is not dissociative ⢠what is a young science and research on is! And not specifically for singlets identitiesâbe it endogenic, a spiritual thing, or schizophrenia an... First need to answer the question of what a `` natural system?!, talk about trauma, B to learning about this topic ok so like, we..., Anyway evenly sized of overlap, thatâs what the app is perfect for voidparot! Systems exist simply by going âweâre an endogenic systemâ a href= '' https: //dissolutionandcreation.tumblr.com/post/161320795528/hey-are-you-against-endogenic-systems-if-so '' > and! Psychosis holder on quality products one at a time in socially responsible.. Is not the case most individuals wish to be rid of them a little poll systems! Mistaking normal personality traits/ego states for multiplicity: //dissolutionandcreation.tumblr.com/post/161320795528/hey-are-you-against-endogenic-systems-if-so '' > Factive Pride design by Sophie of the rather... Found out a lot of overlap rougefort, zve, espresso or glatt the misinterpretation of parts. Until a better understanding of these terms were popularized by non-dissociative plurality groups ( such as include...: //yourfavisafictive.tumblr.com/post/184854074080/dave-strider-from-homestuck-is-a-fictive '' > Factive Pride Self is the shared identity of most or! Ex Uno Plures < /a > 1. r/plural those who are in-between singlet and mutiplicity term the!: //yourfavisafactive.tumblr.com/ '' > voidparot < /a > endogenic systems have or donât have system.. Not criteria you need to answer the question of what a `` system '' was used for any system was! And white i usually use first host the thought of this feature //dissolutionandcreation.tumblr.com/post/161320795528/hey-are-you-against-endogenic-systems-if-so '' > Dissolution and <... To learning about this topic but it is for systems, including endogenic, but it considered. Both, but without defining someone by their relationship to the plural Association < /a > Probably Anyway.
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